Opposite Sex

[Federica]

Is Butler right that we can't simply divide individuals into two distinct sexes: men and women? Isn't it just a brute, biological fact that each of us is either male or female?

[Victoria]

After reading the reading I feel that our society today isn't up to speed in a way with how our culture is / has evolved.
Male or Female is the acceptable, anything else isn't talked about Or if it is for example like Gay or Lesbian or Cross Dresser it is then frowned on...
Until we start accepting that male and female are not the only two options in our society there will be no change for the rest other than being odd or different than the norm.
 

[pwaterer]

I believe that we can not categorise every single person into a male or female criteria. Of course for the vast majority people are either male or female but there are always exceptions and anomalies to the general idea.

[Chesca]

I would have to disagree with Butler, I believe that there are two distinctive sexes and you can divide individuals into them as either man or women.  This is because each of us men and women are determined by their gender depending on the biological aspect. There is only one thing that makes a man, a man and one thing that makes a woman, a woman which is known to all. So by saying you can’t I think there is discrepancy somewhere.
I wouldn’t say brute because us knowing who we are and what gender we are allows us to know who is who and without having the distinctive sex, could cause confusion. If we are referring to gays and lesbians in terms of ‘we not being able to divide individuals into two distinctive sexes’, I can understand butlers words but even then each of those gays and lesbian stemmed from being either a man or women, and it is only a brute to those practising gay and lesbianism, not to those who are practising their original gender.

[gerrberr]

I belive that there are two distinctive sexes. Butler's arguments did not convince me. I belive that we need to have a clear division in the society into men and women otherwise there will be a great confusion. Personally for me drag queens are abnormal and I think that it is agains biology and creation. If all people started claimining that they are women despite having  biological features of men then the society would die out as there would be nobody to bear children. It is also crucial for the goverment to be able to draw up the laws and rules for society.

[Tea and Cake]

gerrberr, I think you've been a little judgmental calling all drag queens 'abnormal', surely one of the greatest things about this country is having the freedom to express ourselves? Do you not consider that these so called 'drag queens' with whom you are referring to may look at you on the street and think you're 'abnormal' for not having the confidence to express yourself? Why should people have to restrain themselves in the way they dress so not to be judged by people like yourself in society?

With an already overcrowded population in England I'm highly doubtful that 'society would die out' if more people declared they were gay. And I'm intrigued about your last statement, "It is also crucial for the government to be able to draw up the laws and rules for society." What is crucial? Being straight? And to what laws and rules are you referring to?

[Karla]

For the majority I am in agreement that there are two distinct sexes. At birth you are labelled either male or female based on your genitalia, you are named accordingly and go through your life as one or the other. There are of course exceptions, for example in the case of hermaphrodites, where genitalia remains ambiguous.
Gay/ lesbian is something you choose to be, it doesn't make you any less of a man or woman as you still have the masculine/feminine features to be classed accordingly. I think its more the behaviour that changes rather than the physical aspect. So, unlike what Butler says, I believe that there are two clear cut categories.

[supernoodle275]

There are so many varying factors that can distinguish whether a human being is a man or a woman.

For example, you could be a man but hold very feminine qualities, and vice versa. This is questionable as to whether these types of factors define your gender, but the most important factors are the biological ones.The basic fact of the matter is that there are only two genders, and you have to be one or the other.

[Tiffany]

From my point of view, I actually disagree with Butler's statement, I don't think this is a queistion need to be asked, we were born to be male or female, even not biologically, people performe naturally.
Butler went beyond from the biological point, I can also argue that even for gays, one of them is performing girly although they are both boys, people can performe mentally or physcologically. he says "each of us is either male or female?" so what is our identities then?
This kind of issues are being over ruled, it just happens naturally, why should we give an exact defination for it?

[Alexpecko]

I am in argreement with pwaterer
I think Butler is right up to a point. There are two ways of classifying human beings based purely on their genitalia,but with the obvious exception of hermaphrodites, immediately adding a third dimension,inline with Butlers argument that there arent ONLY males and females. Based upon this I dont think it is a 'brute, biological fact'
Personally I feel that the terms'sex' and 'gender' provide such a grey area and even attempting to define them proves so confusing and controversial that humans cannot simply be catergorised into two.

Personally i dont think Drag queens are  '

abnormal

or

agains biology and creation

and i am in agreement with Tea and Cake that

  With an already overcrowded population in England I'm highly doubtful that 'society would die out' if more people declared they were gay. And I'm intrigued about your last statement, "It is also crucial for the government to be able to draw up the laws and rules for society." With an already overcrowded population in England I'm highly doubtful that 'society would die out' if more people declared they were gay

     
Im very interested to see how the Gerrberr vs Tea and Cake argument develops!

[Natty]

I think it's easy to establish the differences between sex and gender, because sex is biologically dictated, whilst gender is a predetermined imposition that is inflicted upon different sexes by society. Society, by the way, referring to how I feel gender is important in Britain. We like to have labels, as long as we understand 'what' a person is we find them easier to comprehend in the greater scheme of things. We do not mind so much if a person is gay or straight, we have more of a problem not knowing which gender they are and why they are "performing" in a way we do not link to their sex. If a man is effeminate, but gay, we tell ourselves he is camp, and this explains it. But if an effeminate man is straight, we thinks he's weird and undermine his masculinity with offensive slurs.

Perhaps this view is not apparent in other countries, other societies, and one could argue that this is where disagreement lies in the forum; different peoples' different exposures to opposite cultural ideas.

[j´adore]

Having read various texts by Butler and looked at the above posts, it is fair to say that there is not a single and absolute distinction/hormone between male and female, yet we have mostly been able to categorise an individual into one or the other. Further, gender is also performed through imitation which is supported by:

“there is no essential biological characteristic that makes us each a man or a woman, but we all learn to perform as one or the other” (Tyler, 1996, pg.65).

Personally I view gender as both a meaningful category as we rely on it all the time and most of us like to have a certain idea about someone else and it is therefore very common: for example, on every form of identification the gender is stated. On the hand, however, I believe the term gender to also possess and convey a negative aspect as it separates individuals and creates roles and hierarchies where men usually enjoy more power in this society. I therefore also criticise today’s society for labelling people a lot so that the term gender is necessary but can also create separations and hierarchies.

[sianperkins89]

Is Butler right that we can't simply divide individuals into two distinct sexes: men and women? Isn't it just a brute, biological fact that each of us is either male or female?

I think that Butler is wrong. There are two sexes; male and female. It's true that intersexual beings are born into this world but my personal belief is that their sexual indeterminacy was a mistake of nature, just like a disablements. I do not agree with Butler's ideas that intersex babies are natural human morphology. If that was the case, then surely we would eventually end up with human race that cannot produce any more children as they do not have the right sexual organs or cannot carry a baby, therefore the human race would die out! The reason that the human race carries on is by having males and females who reproduce together...

[07016311]

I disagree with Butler, I believe it is simple to categorise people in either the male or female category, obviously we have to consider hermaphrodites as well. I believe gender is the part that distinguishes people and I think that gender is also the part that allows people to express themselves freely, whether people be gay, straight, transvestites etc. I don't think the government puts constraints on society to ensure that people fit the criteria to behave as a male or female, and this has nothing to do with them, the decision is entirely down to the individual. Which leads me to say that people can be put into sex categories with the addition of hermaphrodites, but the gender and sexuality category allows these individuals to be the people they want to be.

[sweetgirl]

Butler(2008) work on gender trouble involves not only gender itself, but also sex, sexuality and the body as conceived cultural products. Basically then Butler is rejecting the fact that gender of masculinity or femininity tends to be cultural articulation of a biological sex. In fact there is nothing given about gender and neither there is any pre-cultural or pre-discursive sex that will provide the basics for cultural construction. 'Sex' itself is a gendered category. Now for instance understanding materiality involves the development of performativity and this means that the bodies are immaterial.